part of the problem
Jan. 10th, 2021 06:09 pmSo you saw an argument where one side was the Devil, and you were like, "Man, that guy could use an advocate." -xkcd
I agree with the quoted character that sometimes, often in fact, I don't really enjoy taking up arguments for their own sake. When I was in high school, a lot of my smart classmates were on the speech/debate teams, and I never had interest in that--not just because I'm not super into public speaking (performing my original poems and stories is fine, but just performing for the sake of performance, no). But also because I don't think I'd be very good at arguing a position I don't agree with, just for "the sake of argument." So when I see people taking really bad positions, and I'm sure we can all think of some (especially this week, but also, just in general), it's like..."do I want to make a hypothetical argument as to why they might believe that's a good idea? No? Honestly, I really don't want to do that."
Both my in-person and virtual social groups are very bubble-y, and it's not uncommon for me to wind up in situations where pretty much everyone around me agrees, and wants to share, that aforementioned bad takes are, in fact, bad. And it's like...do I need to add my agreement? No, not really, it's not going to make a difference. And when they all happen to agree on something I disagree with, I definitely don't want to chip in, because it's not going to change anyone's mind, and moreover they're going to think less of me!
So best case scenario, they're jumping to unjustified conclusions about the people around them--maybe sometimes supported by circumstantial evidence, but still not justified. Worst case scenario, we get the self-congratulatory backpats.
When I was a young person on the internet, I would sometimes be among the youngest people in the room. So when other people were like "back in our day we did X," I could politely jump in and be like "actually, I'm part of us, but I am also too young to remember X," and then they'd correct themselves to be like "okay, well, most of us did X back in our day, but Ember doesn't count due to being a precocious wunderkind" and I'd feel full of myself.
But I don't really think I can say I'm a young person anymore. There are a lot more hipper/younger/more radical people out there. I'm part of "the millennial cohort that aren't really young at this point" (see xkcd again for many examples of this). So when other people (older, younger, whatever), are like "we are bad, we are terrible, we are irredeemable garbage," I'm like..."stop including me in your 'we'." Older generations have been (over)compensating for their predecessors' perceived failings by including me in their we for almost three decades, and what has it gotten me? (And then they act shocked and appalled that I don't want to be social with them for the sake of being social.)
I agree with the quoted character that sometimes, often in fact, I don't really enjoy taking up arguments for their own sake. When I was in high school, a lot of my smart classmates were on the speech/debate teams, and I never had interest in that--not just because I'm not super into public speaking (performing my original poems and stories is fine, but just performing for the sake of performance, no). But also because I don't think I'd be very good at arguing a position I don't agree with, just for "the sake of argument." So when I see people taking really bad positions, and I'm sure we can all think of some (especially this week, but also, just in general), it's like..."do I want to make a hypothetical argument as to why they might believe that's a good idea? No? Honestly, I really don't want to do that."
Both my in-person and virtual social groups are very bubble-y, and it's not uncommon for me to wind up in situations where pretty much everyone around me agrees, and wants to share, that aforementioned bad takes are, in fact, bad. And it's like...do I need to add my agreement? No, not really, it's not going to make a difference. And when they all happen to agree on something I disagree with, I definitely don't want to chip in, because it's not going to change anyone's mind, and moreover they're going to think less of me!
So best case scenario, they're jumping to unjustified conclusions about the people around them--maybe sometimes supported by circumstantial evidence, but still not justified. Worst case scenario, we get the self-congratulatory backpats.
When I was a young person on the internet, I would sometimes be among the youngest people in the room. So when other people were like "back in our day we did X," I could politely jump in and be like "actually, I'm part of us, but I am also too young to remember X," and then they'd correct themselves to be like "okay, well, most of us did X back in our day, but Ember doesn't count due to being a precocious wunderkind" and I'd feel full of myself.
But I don't really think I can say I'm a young person anymore. There are a lot more hipper/younger/more radical people out there. I'm part of "the millennial cohort that aren't really young at this point" (see xkcd again for many examples of this). So when other people (older, younger, whatever), are like "we are bad, we are terrible, we are irredeemable garbage," I'm like..."stop including me in your 'we'." Older generations have been (over)compensating for their predecessors' perceived failings by including me in their we for almost three decades, and what has it gotten me? (And then they act shocked and appalled that I don't want to be social with them for the sake of being social.)