Language change/evolution
Mar. 28th, 2022 09:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
primeidealI was going to post this on ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fictional_fans but it got rambly so I'm just going to link it there, heh.
As You Know, Bob, language is always changing over time. Example: this Tumblr post with the Biblical 23rd Psalm as expressed in English at different eras. Written language is less likely than spoken language to change over time--in Shakespeare's poems, "proved" and "loved" rhyme, and we still spell those the same way even if they're pronounced differently. And even though I would have no idea what "Drihten me raet, ne byth me nanes godes wan" means out of context, thanks to the Internet I now know that it's Psalm 23. Yay internet!
In the setting of "Crying Suns," before the game begins, there's a futuristic galactic empire with lots of computers/technology/robots/FTL travel. An immortal emperor has been in charge of the galaxy for centuries. I'm guessing that culture was relatively static during that time--even if there were language barriers, maybe the robots just handwaved them away. But then the robots disappear and it's basically a post-apocalyptic setting, human society has basically lost the ability to function without robots and chaos reigns. The ending hints that it's possible, if not guaranteed, that another emperor could emerge and lead ruthlessly to try to hold the scraps of civilization together and rule for centuries more.
So conceivably, we have this immortal dictator who lives for centuries and tries to preserve what's left of human culture. But elsewhere in the galaxy, there's anarchy and chaos. I feel like, without modern technology or robots, each planet is going to more or less go its own way in terms of culture. And this will happen for hundreds of years! Whatever vernacular the non-immortal characters speak is probably going to be very different than the "starting" language.
I would like to represent this in fic, if possible. The main narration, and the dialogue in the early sections, would be straightforward. But I'd like in-universe documents and/or dialogue from non-immortal characters, at least in the later centuries, recognizably different from the way the immortals talk but still readable. Some extrapolations from contemporary English feel relatively safe--maybe "gon" (from "gonna") replaces "will" as a future tense verb. But I've also seen attempts at "future English as distantly related to contemporary dialects" been criticized for being cringey/unrealistic/needlessly distracting. Does anyone have any advice for how to strike a balance? Examples of fics/canons that do this well (or poorly?)
To be clear, the future-planets aren't supposed to be based on any RL culture in particular, just "badly-terraformed planet #100" and "shoutout to Arrakis from Dune."
fictional_fans but it got rambly so I'm just going to link it there, heh.As You Know, Bob, language is always changing over time. Example: this Tumblr post with the Biblical 23rd Psalm as expressed in English at different eras. Written language is less likely than spoken language to change over time--in Shakespeare's poems, "proved" and "loved" rhyme, and we still spell those the same way even if they're pronounced differently. And even though I would have no idea what "Drihten me raet, ne byth me nanes godes wan" means out of context, thanks to the Internet I now know that it's Psalm 23. Yay internet!
In the setting of "Crying Suns," before the game begins, there's a futuristic galactic empire with lots of computers/technology/robots/FTL travel. An immortal emperor has been in charge of the galaxy for centuries. I'm guessing that culture was relatively static during that time--even if there were language barriers, maybe the robots just handwaved them away. But then the robots disappear and it's basically a post-apocalyptic setting, human society has basically lost the ability to function without robots and chaos reigns. The ending hints that it's possible, if not guaranteed, that another emperor could emerge and lead ruthlessly to try to hold the scraps of civilization together and rule for centuries more.
So conceivably, we have this immortal dictator who lives for centuries and tries to preserve what's left of human culture. But elsewhere in the galaxy, there's anarchy and chaos. I feel like, without modern technology or robots, each planet is going to more or less go its own way in terms of culture. And this will happen for hundreds of years! Whatever vernacular the non-immortal characters speak is probably going to be very different than the "starting" language.
I would like to represent this in fic, if possible. The main narration, and the dialogue in the early sections, would be straightforward. But I'd like in-universe documents and/or dialogue from non-immortal characters, at least in the later centuries, recognizably different from the way the immortals talk but still readable. Some extrapolations from contemporary English feel relatively safe--maybe "gon" (from "gonna") replaces "will" as a future tense verb. But I've also seen attempts at "future English as distantly related to contemporary dialects" been criticized for being cringey/unrealistic/needlessly distracting. Does anyone have any advice for how to strike a balance? Examples of fics/canons that do this well (or poorly?)
To be clear, the future-planets aren't supposed to be based on any RL culture in particular, just "badly-terraformed planet #100" and "shoutout to Arrakis from Dune."
no subject
Date: 3/29/22 02:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/29/22 08:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/29/22 07:03 am (UTC)The creator of Trigedasleng is on Tumblr, and he's answered a lot of questions about it in his posts under that tag. He's made an interesting post about how it's inspired by Melanesian Pidgin, so that might also be a language worth looking into.
Good luck with your worldbuilding!
no subject
Date: 3/29/22 02:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/29/22 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 3/29/22 10:34 am (UTC)It's also worth considering that since your story is going to be written for speakers of modern English, everything in it can be conceived as a translation into modern English from whatever language they're using. Using modern English with the addition of a few made-up words might provide a flavor to the interactions but isn't going to be a realistic representation of anything, anymore than making a movie in English that's set in France and having the characters speak English with a French accent.
Perhaps rather than trying to portray the dialect itself, you would be more successful by describing the effect on the listeners - the kinds of difficulties they have interacting with the other dialects, that is - you likely need some made-up words still this way, because when you don't know what a word means you tend to ask about it - but for the most part, it probably comes off like a weird accent.
no subject
Date: 3/29/22 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/3/22 12:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 4/3/22 01:26 am (UTC)